Asset Management Company

[waaan5]

Originally Posted by nosa2

I get your point, well we'll have to wait a couple of days to find out who's right.

Methinks the descent has already started. I am watching to see those who will be buying sls bank stocks higher than the deepest pocket - AMCON

[faithgonuel]

My left and right cerebrum are unstable slowly loosing co-ordination. With all this divergent views, grammar and projected numbers from AMCOM, CBN and analyst, when shall we have a clearer picture of this AMCON policies.

[pegheneji]

Originally Posted by nosa2

I get your point, well we'll have to wait a couple of days to find out who's right.

i have not rearly read members comment on effect of Ibru's plea bargain ecxept from KOD who said he heard that the forfieture goes to Amcon and not Oceanic, that will be the highest level of robbery and i have tried to tink of how it will happen i cannot still Imagin it. the worse scenaro i expect is for EFCC to get a % of the value forfieted. Also, from KOD's blog and contributions from others, we always compare the value of the loan then and the value now viz-a viz the fallen prize of stock. that is some one ust the 100,000 units of oceanic ( when the price was 30) to borrow N2,000,000.0 and Amcom will now pay let say 2.7* 100,000=N 270,000 for the loan. in real sense the value has depreciated but you need to consider the following:
The price of the stock has been punished acordignly and that is why a stock that was on bid at N30.00 may now be on offer at N3 which means that the value lost (N2,000,000 to N270,000) is compesated with the loss in price (N30 to N3). I will rather buy a stock at N3 that will make a profit of N270,000 than buying a stock at N30 that will make a profit of N2,000,000 which means it is cheaper to buy oceanic at N3.00 now. you may also factor the fact that u do not take 100% of ur colataral as loan.

Will i buy Finbank now? other factors that will my bullish or bearish approch is the ability to stand alone and that is where is still get confuse wit SLS and Amcon, i was thinking that the coming of Amcon would have removed them from 'danger' list and all negotiation merger will now be that of a beautiful bride where those bank to be bought will now be on premium, but if finbank will still be on danger list and looking for any 'Mr.' available to 'marry' then of what benefit is this Amcon? then i will not buy Finbank until the foggy air becomes clearer but Oceanic i will buy more any thing above N2 and will not sell below N3.00 because the asset forfieted are for Oceanic shareholder and nothing more ecxept EFCC taking some %.

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by pegheneji

i have not rearly read members comment on effect of Ibru's plea bargain ecxept from KOD who said he heard that the forfieture goes to Amcon and not Oceanic, that will be the highest level of robbery and i have tried to tink of how it will happen i cannot still Imagin it. the worse scenaro i expect is for EFCC to get a % of the value forfieted. Also, from KOD's blog and contributions from others, we always compare the value of the loan then and the value now viz-a viz the fallen prize of stock. that is some one ust the 100,000 units of oceanic ( when the price was 30) to borrow N2,000,000.0 and Amcom will now pay let say 2.7* 100,000=N 270,000 for the loan. in real sense the value has depreciated but you need to consider the following:
The price of the stock has been punished acordignly and that is why a stock that was on bid at N30.00 may now be on offer at N3 which means that the value lost (N2,000,000 to N270,000) is compesated with the loss in price (N30 to N3). I will rather buy a stock at N3 that will make a profit of N270,000 than buying a stock at N30 that will make a profit of N2,000,000 which means it is cheaper to buy oceanic at N3.00 now. you may also factor the fact that u do not take 100% of ur colataral as loan.

Will i buy Finbank now? other factors that will my bullish or bearish approch is the ability to stand alone and that is where is still get confuse wit SLS and Amcon, i was thinking that the coming of Amcon would have removed them from 'danger' list and all negotiation merger will now be that of a beautiful bride where those bank to be bought will now be on premium, but if finbank will still be on danger list and looking for any 'Mr.' available to 'marry' then of what benefit is this Amcon? then i will not buy Finbank until the foggy air becomes clearer but Oceanic i will buy more any thing above N2 and will not sell below N3.00 because the asset forfieted are for Oceanic shareholder and nothing more ecxept EFCC taking some %.

everything seized from Ceci Ibru goes to AMCON. Try reading this link(the penultimate paragraph)

Ceicilia Ibru Jailed, Forefeits Assetsâ?¦CBN Vindicated - Proshare

[omsby]

Originally Posted by Oracle

everything seized from Ceci Ibru goes to AMCON. Try reading this link(the penultimate paragraph)

Ceicilia Ibru Jailed, Forefeits Assetsâ?¦CBN Vindicated - Proshare

The Question: Does the Assets siezed from Ceicilia Ibru belong to AMCON
or Is the AMCON only going to ensure that the assets are sold and the 100B
Bailout Money is paid back and if any additional profit is realised, it goes to oceanic shareholder. Who owns the assets seized? Sure Oceanic is owning
CBN and CBN through the instrument of AMCON is seizing this assets as collateral.

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by omsby

The Question: Does the Assets siezed from Ceicilia Ibru belong to AMCON
or Is the AMCON only going to ensure that the assets are sold and the 100B
Bailout Money is paid back and if any additional profit is realised, it goes to oceanic shareholder. Who owns the assets seized? Sure Oceanic is owning
CBN and CBN through the instrument of AMCON is seizing this assets as collateral.

With all these questions, I think I should give u Mustapha Chike-Obi's number. Just flash am,he will call back.

What I am even thinking is this:can banks opt out from AMCON? Will there be a clause allowing this? Cos in the long run, if they run this thing like NEPA(Pay and not see light or where u will contribute and u will not see the effect of the thing) can a bank decide not to be part of the game again?

[babe!]

Originally Posted by pegheneji

i have not rearly read members comment on effect of Ibru's plea bargain ecxept from KOD who said he heard that the forfieture goes to Amcon and not Oceanic, that will be the highest level of robbery and i have tried to tink of how it will happen i cannot still Imagin it. the worse scenaro i expect is for EFCC to get a % of the value forfieted. Also, from KOD's blog and contributions from others, we always compare the value of the loan then and the value now viz-a viz the fallen prize of stock. that is some one ust the 100,000 units of oceanic ( when the price was 30) to borrow N2,000,000.0 and Amcom will now pay let say 2.7* 100,000=N 270,000 for the loan. in real sense the value has depreciated but you need to consider the following:
The price of the stock has been punished acordignly and that is why a stock that was on bid at N30.00 may now be on offer at N3 which means that the value lost (N2,000,000 to N270,000) is compesated with the loss in price (N30 to N3). I will rather buy a stock at N3 that will make a profit of N270,000 than buying a stock at N30 that will make a profit of N2,000,000 which means it is cheaper to buy oceanic at N3.00 now. you may also factor the fact that u do not take 100% of ur colataral as loan.

Will i buy Finbank now? other factors that will my bullish or bearish approch is the ability to stand alone and that is where is still get confuse wit SLS and Amcon, i was thinking that the coming of Amcon would have removed them from 'danger' list and all negotiation merger will now be that of a beautiful bride where those bank to be bought will now be on premium, but if finbank will still be on danger list and looking for any 'Mr.' available to 'marry' then of what benefit is this Amcon? then i will not buy Finbank until the foggy air becomes clearer but Oceanic i will buy more any thing above N2 and will not sell below N3.00 because the asset forfieted are for Oceanic shareholder and nothing more ecxept EFCC taking some %.

you seems to forget that sanusi talked about selling the banks (at the expense of current shareholders) than returning them to profitability thru AMCON.
the fact that he has stopped talking about current shareholders losing all the value of their investment does not mean his beliefs, and course of action, has changed. he is just wiser now.
it appears certain that even if AMCON return the sls banks to positive shareholder value region, his preferred action will still be to sell the banks, at the detriment of current shareholders.
why else will oceanic forfeit cecila loot to AMCON?
one thing i noted sanusi was most categorical about was that the present owner of the banks will not be allowed to own or run the sls banks again.
well, one can buy the sls banks if you want to own peanut of the eventual post recapitalised sls banks.

[hispy99]

Bond market impact of Nigeria bad bank seen muted | News by Country | Reuters

"AMCON will issue bonds through the Debt Management Office (DMO) to buy non-performing loans with a face value of 2.2 trillion naira ($15 billion), although it has told bankers it expects to pay around 800 billion naira for the assets.

It will also bring the lenders' negative shareholders funds to zero by injecting 1.7 trillion naira, before new investors come in to restore them to minimum capital adequacy levels"

[omsby]

Originally Posted by Oracle

With all these questions, I think I should give u Mustapha Chike-Obi's number. Just flash am,he will call back.

What I am even thinking is this:can banks opt out from AMCON? Will there be a clause allowing this? Cos in the long run, if they run this thing like NEPA(Pay and not see light or where u will contribute and u will not see the effect of the thing) can a bank decide not to be part of the game again?

Q: Can Banks opt out of AMCON?
A: As a contributor (0,3% of + Assets) not.
But it is let to you to decide wether you use the service of AMCON to
recapitalise or improve your balance sheet. You are only compelled to
reduce your NPL to 5% of your Assets. If you can meet this and other
requirements like minimum capital, repaying back the bail out money
without result to AMCON, you are free.

That means new buyers will have to bid something higher than what AMCON offer you as an alternative. Actually the only problem the SLS banks have with CBN are:
1. repaying the Bail out money
2. raising their capital to the minimum allowed for their operating license.

How the present shareholders of the Bank accomplished this is their problem.
CBN can only put presure on them to accomplish it within a set period of time
or face the music of bankruptcy.

Legally the present shareholder are the ones who will decide wether they want raise fund using new investors and at what price.

[Babs_O]

Originally Posted by Oracle

everything seized from Ceci Ibru goes to AMCON. Try reading this link(the penultimate paragraph)

Ceicilia Ibru Jailed, Forefeits Assetsâ?¦CBN Vindicated - Proshare

It will be unethical (criminal) for seized money from Ibru to now become AMCON's money. Reading the story quoted above it suggests the money will be used to pay-off what Oceanic owns CBN. That means Oceanic should have positive Shareholder funds by now. If Abacha loot was returned to Nigeria and not UN xy fund. It will be broad day stealing if AMCON takes ownership of recovered money from Bank Crooks. Come to think of it if Oceanic and other bailed out banks are making so much profit even with a large chunk of shareholder funds not in place, what would they have made if they did the right thing by managing money properly. If Oceanic drops due to dumping if I have spare cash I will pick up more should it ever reach N2 again. Many things are still unclear. If SLS speaks today that AMCON has now cleared Oceanic's debt or whatever from the recovered money leaving a positive shareholders funds the market will react . .

[stance]

How can I post a link here. I saw a write up on AMCON on the proshare website maybe someone can post it here. It seem to be different from the discussion on AMCON here so far.

[manemi]

Originally Posted by stance

How can I post a link here. I saw a write up on AMCON on the proshare website maybe someone can post it here. It seem to be different from the discussion on AMCON here so far.

Is it this one?

NSE Investors appear to be Ignoring Valuations with the Recent Rally - Proshare

If it is just copy the address bar when you are viewing the article on Proshareng and paste it in your SMN post.

[stance]

Originally Posted by manemi

Is it this one?

NSE Investors appear to be Ignoring Valuations with the Recent Rally - Proshare

If it is just copy the address bar when you are viewing the article on Proshareng and paste it in your SMN post.

Yes it is. Thanks.

[MalamImam]

AMCON intervention...

[pegheneji]

Originally Posted by babe!

you seems to forget that sanusi talked about selling the banks (at the expense of current shareholders) than returning them to profitability thru AMCON.
the fact that he has stopped talking about current shareholders losing all the value of their investment does not mean his beliefs, and course of action, has changed. he is just wiser now.
it appears certain that even if AMCON return the sls banks to positive shareholder value region, his preferred action will still be to sell the banks, at the detriment of current shareholders.
why else will oceanic forfeit cecila loot to AMCON?
one thing i noted sanusi was most categorical about was that the present owner of the banks will not be allowed to own or run the sls banks again.
well, one can buy the sls banks if you want to own peanut of the eventual post recapitalised sls banks.

the concept of the plea bargainn is to ensure that those share holders loose something. the shares forfieted may be part of those to be sold to the new investors

Originally Posted by Babs_O

It will be unethical (criminal) for seized money from Ibru to now become AMCON's money. Reading the story quoted above it suggests the money will be used to pay-off what Oceanic owns CBN. That means Oceanic should have positive Shareholder funds by now. If Abacha loot was returned to Nigeria and not UN xy fund. It will be broad day stealing if AMCON takes ownership of recovered money from Bank Crooks. Come to think of it if Oceanic and other bailed out banks are making so much profit even with a large chunk of shareholder funds not in place, what would they have made if they did the right thing by managing money properly. If Oceanic drops due to dumping if I have spare cash I will pick up more should it ever reach N2 again. Many things are still unclear. If SLS speaks today that AMCON has now cleared Oceanic's debt or whatever from the recovered money leaving a positive shareholders funds the market will react . .

this is exactly the way i view it i also foresee a situationwhere Oceanic shares forfieted by Ibru in the bargain becomes unisued shares that new investors can pay for. infact the value of the plea should reflect in the full year result since it took place in oct. and it will be too late for us to pick. i may be careful in picking other banks though i think at the current price they are still good but the % of Oceanic in my porfolio should increase before Ja. ending.

There is also this constant use of shares watered down and its implication, we all should know that with the effect of the global crises values will be erroded and the issue should be the price that is currently worth because all the banks need extra capital so which do you prefare issue bond or capital raise.
Option 1
Share Capital (Long term money) in capital raise new shares will be given out reducing the valye of existing shareholders but these shares will bring in more money while the company does not have the overhang of servicing dept.

Option 2
Dept ( Bond, loan, borrowing){short term money} in any of them, the company will not issue new shares and the value of the shareholders not directly watred down but their profit is directly affected. 1st bank plans to raise 500billion through bond, how are they going to pay back the money + interest, it is going to be throgh the profit they make.

AIT almost folded up b/c they use short term money (loan) to finance their project and i am sure that the main reason for most of them going for bond is because of fear of under subscription which may make the SLS banks be at an adv. since investors may be willing to buy so as to gain ownership.

[knightofdelta]

Originally Posted by pegheneji

the concept of the plea bargainn is to ensure that those share holders loose something. the shares forfieted may be part of those to be sold to the new investors


this is exactly the way i view it i also foresee a situationwhere Oceanic shares forfieted by Ibru in the bargain becomes unisued shares that new investors can pay for. infact the value of the plea should reflect in the full year result since it took place in oct. and it will be too late for us to pick. i may be careful in picking other banks though i think at the current price they are still good but the % of Oceanic in my porfolio should increase before Ja. ending.

There is also this constant use of shares watered down and its implication, we all should know that with the effect of the global crises values will be erroded and the issue should be the price that is currently worth because all the banks need extra capital so which do you prefare issue bond or capital raise.
Option 1
Share Capital (Long term money) in capital raise new shares will be given out reducing the valye of existing shareholders but these shares will bring in more money while the company does not have the overhang of servicing dept.

Option 2
Dept ( Bond, loan, borrowing){short term money} in any of them, the company will not issue new shares and the value of the shareholders not directly watred down but their profit is directly affected. 1st bank plans to raise 500billion through bond, how are they going to pay back the money + interest, it is going to be throgh the profit they make.

AIT almost folded up b/c they use short term money (loan) to finance their project and i am sure that the main reason for most of them going for bond is because of fear of under subscription which may make the SLS banks be at an adv. since investors may be willing to buy so as to gain ownership.

Good luck in making your investment decision based on the bolded portion...

[Oracle]

AMCON Valuation Assumptions, How Valid? - Vetiva Research

[waaan5]

Originally Posted by babe!

you seems to forget that sanusi talked about selling the banks (at the expense of current shareholders) than returning them to profitability thru AMCON.
the fact that he has stopped talking about current shareholders losing all the value of their investment does not mean his beliefs, and course of action, has changed. he is just wiser now.
it appears certain that even if AMCON return the sls banks to positive shareholder value region, his preferred action will still be to sell the banks, at the detriment of current shareholders.
why else will oceanic forfeit cecila loot to AMCON?
one thing i noted sanusi was most categorical about was that the present owner of the banks will not be allowed to own or run the sls banks again.
well, one can buy the sls banks if you want to own peanut of the eventual post recapitalised sls banks.

Babe! I have thanked you the SMN way for this post. The stubborn fly gets buried with the decomposed corpse. How else can one tell people to beware of the sls trap in the ravaged banks?

[muranay@yahoo.com]

CBN retains benchmark rate at 6.25%, intensifies liquidity mop up

[Waves]

For those that participated in 'Profit taking' on the rescued banks and intend to come back, it may be worthwhile to keep your eyes on your target stock.