MarketWatch

[hispy99]

Originally Posted by edunko

Thanks for bros, but can you tell me why you choose diamond and oceanic ?

You had 4 options and FCMB based on forward PE seems to be the weakest. I don't have my bedsheet in front of me so I could not choose between diamond and oceanic, although I suspect oceanic's PE might be better.

[edunko]

so you are advise FCMB ?

[Taipan]

Originally Posted by hispy99

You had 4 options and FCMB based on forward PE seems to be the weakest. I don't have my bedsheet in front of me so I could not choose between diamond and oceanic, although I suspect oceanic's PE might be better.

Well assuming 25b shares outstanding, I have a PE of 11.4 for Oceanic. Diamond isnt among my list of stocks - either owned or watched.

[hispy99]

Originally Posted by edunko

so you are advise FCMB ?

Bros, let's take this conversation somewhere else, this is not the thread to discuss this subject. I do no want to get on the wrong side of billions or olusolakemmy

You can ask your question in the beginner section since it is a general question.


FCMB was last.

[edunko]

fcmb is last , pls what u mean ?

this is for tread is market watch.

dont worry for Billion, he is my guy

[knightofdelta]

Originally Posted by tdmadeeasy

I read the following in the Financial Times www.ft.com of 11/12 October 2008 - in an article by John Authers, titled "Heed the harsh lessons of history to find value".

"he (Benjamin Graham) worked out a way to invest profitably in the stock market, now known as 'value investing'. Rather than attempt to time the market, he said investors should look at exactly what a company was worth, and how much it would be worth if the worst came to the worst..."

"This meant you should look at a company's assets on the balance sheet, and also look at its ability to produce cash. If the company is so cheap that its value would scarcely be less if it were to go out of business, then you have what Graham called a 'margin of safety'...."

"Thus you have an asymmetric bet; heads you win a lot, tails you do not lose much...."

"Do not try to work out how long the market will take to recover or when it will hit bottom - that task is impossible. Use basic balance sheet methods to work out how much a stock is worth and how much it would be worth if the worst came to the worst. If that calculation leaves you with a margin of safety, then buy it. "


- John Authers.



I think the current Global stock market crash, (including the downturn/crash in Nigeria) is a good time to do value investing and buy, for those who are prepared for long term investing / have a long term view. The bad thing is, I have no money to invest. And I believe its the best time to invest for the long term!

Thank you for reminding us of the basics of Investment 101...

[knightofdelta]

Originally Posted by Babs_O

Bros. It is really time for value investing. Do not be discouraged by the chaff around. Its only the possible break up of the country or very poor governance from the politicians that should discourage. Pray for better.

Since not every Nigerian is a rogue, there will still be many good companies that are not like Cadbury or Sterling. One needs to sharpen focus on how to find the good companies. I think a measure for finding them is how steady is the PAT (and potential growth in coming years), how much of that is paid as Dividend. One also needs to flag companies that raise money too frequently from the market for close watch. Ensure they are not not messing things up with a cover up that they are pursuing an illusionary growth. If one applied value investing principles Sterling failed (no dividends, not prompt with results, or issued no results for long periods). It will only pass for speculative investment.

I have penciled down to do a simple research of the data of ENRON and Cardbury. To sharpen my focus on what to look out for to differentiate value investments from speculative ones (especially speculative investments hiding in value investment pack)

I am interested in the outcome of your research. Please share when you are through with it. Thanks.

[knightofdelta]

Originally Posted by amoslord

it's absurd to c au banks r hussling 4 deposits lately.atm frauds n unnecessary withdrawala bin made witout consent of customers....
i am prepared to fight it out dis week till every dime of mine is refunded.my xperince goes thus....
i made a standing order for direct debit(to buy stockss) quite alryt,but surprised to see debit bin made for more than a month.four straight months,can u beat dat!au r dey sure i wont be in nid of d kish any tym soon or the stipulated amount isnt enofu.
also,i did atm in 1 of d nu genext banks and like magic...10k went missing.

my simple question is "r our ever ready mega profit declaring banks healthy as the pix they paint?"

i was discussing wit a pal ova d weekend,he said he has made up his mind not 2 do any money in bank(ryt uder his pillow now).
things r just getting merrier each day.7 pt,V2020,etc seeems like our Teaders(not leaders) r running out of ideasssssssss.

realy speechless.

I can fiel de contfuscion. It is writeen all ova...

[Babs_O]

Originally Posted by knightofdelta

I am interested in the outcome of your research. Please share when you are through with it. Thanks.

hispy99 or KOD, please can you help me with where (a link or whatever) where I can find historical data on ENRON (I will try google, but could be longer...).

Data like Gross Earning or Turnover / PBT / PAT / Dividend Paid / # of shares / Share Holders Funds or Net Assets on a yearly basis over 4 to 10years. Plus stories on what they claim they are doing. Reasons for # of share increases or decrease (Bonus / Dividend / Rights / offers / reconstruction /buy back etc)

Will be nice to see a pattern. Though I watched a film on it and what I could deduce from the film is leadership laxity/sharp practices and spend thrift tendency. Perhaps this may show as increasing costs. That is where news jists helps to paint the full the probable picture.

[hispy99]

Originally Posted by Babs_O

hispy99 or KOD, please can you help me with where (a link or whatever) where I can find historical data on ENRON (I will try google, but could be longer...).

Data like Gross Earning or Turnover / PBT / PAT / Dividend Paid / # of shares / Share Holders Funds or Net Assets on a yearly basis over 4 to 10years. Plus stories on what they claim they are doing. Reasons for # of share increases or decrease (Bonus / Dividend / Rights / offers / reconstruction /buy back etc)

Will be nice to see a pattern. Though I watched a film on it and what I could deduce from the film is leadership laxity/sharp practices and spend thrift tendency. Perhaps this may show as increasing costs. That is where news jists helps to paint the full the probable picture.

I will post something for you later today when I get off work.

[billions]

Originally Posted by hispy99

I am oppossed to any form of bailout that attempts to directly pump up share prices by using govt money or bank money.

The first reason is moral and fairness. Take for example my mum that has never invested in the stock market, but has her entire life savings in fixed deposit. She did not participate in the 56% stock market return of 2006 nor the 76% return of 2007. We as investors did and we smiled to the bank. We should be ready to take the losses too because we did not give those who stayed out of the market part of our profit. Pumping up prices via a bailout sets a bad precedent and negates the concept of risk and reward. If we want reward, we should be ready for risk, including the possibility of losing our entire investment.

Second, we need to understand the bailouts going on in most developed markets. The aim of these bailouts is to fix the credit markets, not the equity markets (granted, some of these fixes will help the stock market). Credit markets are frozen and no country can operate in that environment. Banks are not lending to each other or to consumers. The copmmercial paper market in the US has almost collapsed and the federal reserve had to take the unprecedented step of lending directly to companies, because banks were no longer giving credit to companies that required short term financing. When companies can't borrow, the entire economy shuts down.

I am in support of bailouts to stop the economy from collapsing or falling into a recession. If the CBN says that banks are weak and there might be a systematic failure, I will support a move to inject capital into the banks. A collapse of the entire banking system will be disastrous. Even though I support this type of bailouts, I still believe that equity holders should not be rewarded for bad decisions. That is why invetors in Lehman, AIG, etc, got the short end of the stick.

FBN came to the market last year and raised N250B to expand and we want them to use N100B of that to support stock prices. If they agree, then it just tells me that they had no clue with what to do with the N250B in the first place.

I am heavily invested in the market. I have at least 95% of my asset in the market. In the US alone, I am down close to 50% since the end of June this year. I know the risk I took and I am prepared to face the consequences of my action or is it stupidity?

However, when I hammer in the next 3 years, I will invite you all to the owambe party.

I agree with ur opinion and i do appreciate d fact that investors need to learn that risk is not always rewarded.

The problem in US started as a small problem in d property market b4 it became a global financial earthquake of this magnitude.If nothing is done to the naija stock situation our economy will feel d heat.

It is important to point out that d stock problem in Nigeria is now affecting the performance of our banks,our insurance companies are not performing as expected and many of the companies that want to come to d market to raise funds for expansion or preservation of their business are finding it impossible.

I know that d banks are not new to stock investment and i think that if they see bargains in d market they shd be allowed to go for it.Personally,i dont think dey shd use d 100b for market making.They shd only buy stocks dat are selling at a discount,this will ensure the safety of their capital and aid the return of confidence in d market.

When it is time 4 d "owambe"...kindly send me a PM.

[zubychyle]

Originally Posted by hispy99

I am oppossed to any form of bailout that attempts to directly pump up share prices by using govt money or bank money.

The first reason is moral and fairness. Take for example my mum that has never invested in the stock market, but has her entire life savings in fixed deposit. She did not participate in the 56% stock market return of 2006 nor the 76% return of 2007. We as investors did and we smiled to the bank. We should be ready to take the losses too because we did not give those who stayed out of the market part of our profit. Pumping up prices via a bailout sets a bad precedent and negates the concept of risk and reward. If we want reward, we should be ready for risk, including the possibility of losing our entire investment.

Second, we need to understand the bailouts going on in most developed markets. The aim of these bailouts is to fix the credit markets, not the equity markets (granted, some of these fixes will help the stock market). Credit markets are frozen and no country can operate in that environment. Banks are not lending to each other or to consumers. The copmmercial paper market in the US has almost collapsed and the federal reserve had to take the unprecedented step of lending directly to companies, because banks were no longer giving credit to companies that required short term financing. When companies can't borrow, the entire economy shuts down.

I am in support of bailouts to stop the economy from collapsing or falling into a recession. If the CBN says that banks are weak and there might be a systematic failure, I will support a move to inject capital into the banks. A collapse of the entire banking system will be disastrous. Even though I support this type of bailouts, I still believe that equity holders should not be rewarded for bad decisions. That is why invetors in Lehman, AIG, etc, got the short end of the stick.

FBN came to the market last year and raised N250B to expand and we want them to use N100B of that to support stock prices. If they agree, then it just tells me that they had no clue with what to do with the N250B in the first place.

I am heavily invested in the market. I have at least 95% of my asset in the market. In the US alone, I am down close to 50% since the end of June this year. I know the risk I took and I am prepared to face the consequences of my action or is it stupidity?

However, when I hammer in the next 3 years, I will invite you all to the owambe party.

i agree with you totally. let's fix the market not to prop it up.

[chokit]

Six firms present scorecards, as Exchange adjusts Nigerian Breweries' price NIGERIA Oct 13, 2008

SIX companies last week presented their scorecards to the council of the Nigerian Stock Exchange (NSE) and their shareholders, as the price of Nigerian Breweries Plc was adjusted for an interim dividend of N1.00 per share.
Precisely, the share price of Nigerian Breweries Plc was adjusted for the interim dividend following the recommendation by the company's board of directors.
Meanwhile, the audited result of Fidelity Bank Plc for the year ended June 30, 2008, showed the company's gross earnings of N42.7 billion as against N24.9 billion in 2007, while its profit after tax rose to N13.4 billion from N4.71 billion in 2007.
Based on this financial result, the company's directors are recommending a dividend of 30 kobo per share, with date of closure of register of members stated as October 13, 2008 while payment date is November 13, 2008.
For Oceanic Bank International Plc, its mandated result for the fourth quarter ended September 30, 2008, showed that the gross earnings rose to N150.94 billion from N74.94 billion in the comparable period of 2007 while its profit after tax stood at N41.24 billion compared with N17.54 billion in 2007.
The bank, has however, changed it's counting year-end from September to December.
Unaudited result of Intercontinental Bank Plc for the year ended August 31,2008 showed that its gross earnings rose to N121.02 billion from N61 billion in the comparable period of 2007, while its profit after tax stood at N18.73 billion compared with N11.32 billion in 2007.
Afribank Nigeria Plc's unaudited result for the half year ended September 30,2008, showed that it recorded a gross earnings of N43.43 billion, as against N19.5 billion in the comparable period of 2007, while its profit after tax stood at N12.2 billion compared with N5.51 billion in 2007.
Unaudited result of Crusader Nigeria Plc for the half year ended June 30, 2008, showed a turnover of N2.81 billion as against N1.8 billion in the comparable period of 2007, while its profit after tax stood at N706.01 million compared with N593.25 million in 2007.
For Airline Services and Logistics Plc, its unaudited result for the half year ended June 30,2008 showed a turnover of N1.81 billion, up from N1.54 billion in the comparable period of 2007 while its profit after tax stood at N163.63 million compared with N192.9 million in 2007.
Presenting their financial projections, Trans-National Express Plc led six other companies with a projection of N44.9 million in its turnover and N4 million in profit after tax by the year ending December 31, 2008.
UACN Plc also projected a turnover of N40.02 billion by the year ending December 31, 2008.
For AG Leventis Nigeria Plc, it hopes to achieve a turnover of N11 billion and a profit after tax of N992.8 million while Glaxo Smithkline Consumer Plc projected a turnover of N12.35 billion and a profit after tax of N1.1 billion by the year ending December 31, 2008.
Triple Gee and Company Plc presented a forecast of N236.94 million in turnover and N20.12 million in profit after tax for its third quarter ending December 31, 2008.
Furthermore, Custodian and Allied Insurance Plc projected a gross premium of N4.1 billion and a profit after tax of N1.52 billion while Associated Bus Company Plc hopes to record a turnover of N1.15 billion and a profit after tax of N90.93 million by the year ending December 31, 2008.
Source: © 2003 - 2007 @ Guardian Newspapers Limited

[zainabusman]

Originally Posted by hispy99

I am oppossed to any form of bailout that attempts to directly pump up share prices by using govt money or bank money.

The first reason is moral and fairness. Take for example my mum that has never invested in the stock market, but has her entire life savings in fixed deposit. She did not participate in the 56% stock market return of 2006 nor the 76% return of 2007. We as investors did and we smiled to the bank. We should be ready to take the losses too because we did not give those who stayed out of the market part of our profit. Pumping up prices via a bailout sets a bad precedent and negates the concept of risk and reward. If we want reward, we should be ready for risk, including the possibility of losing our entire investment.

Second, we need to understand the bailouts going on in most developed markets. The aim of these bailouts is to fix the credit markets, not the equity markets (granted, some of these fixes will help the stock market). Credit markets are frozen and no country can operate in that environment. Banks are not lending to each other or to consumers. The copmmercial paper market in the US has almost collapsed and the federal reserve had to take the unprecedented step of lending directly to companies, because banks were no longer giving credit to companies that required short term financing. When companies can't borrow, the entire economy shuts down.

I am in support of bailouts to stop the economy from collapsing or falling into a recession. If the CBN says that banks are we