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  #22061 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by eniyanman View Post
I try to take a holistic approach to things. Call it myopic if that suits you.

Why you compare your loss with the Baga killings and what immediately comes to your mind is to praise Jonathan for providing relief materials and not to condemn what happened suggests your value relief more than the apparently needless loss of lives. I find it strange.

1. I won't answer your question because it lacks context. Is sentencing a fraudster who stole $6M to jail for 6 years good? Answer that? Then answer this, Is jailed another for 6 months for stealing $6M good? I've come to realise that context is important and you can't always decompose decisions into binary choices.

2. Odi happened in 1999. Point to any posts I made on this forum in 1999. I described Odi as a massacre, I haven't even described Baga as a massacre yet. So please spare me the resort to 'latent' tribalism and the "what-of-me-mentality".
Apparent needless loss of lives. Noted.

1. Tactically dodged, as expected. Noted.

2. I guess you meant 2009. Your description of what happened in Baga does not matter in the larger scheme of things; what matters is maintaining the sovereignty of the entity called Nigeria.

I was on a mission for something and my suspicions were confirmed. I am done.

#CaseClosed.
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  #22062 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

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Originally Posted by waaan5 View Post
Oga Pico, pls let this one pass. Nobody is rejoicing that the international fight against international terrorism affected civilians in Baga. What I want to hear is how could the international force have distinguished btw BH and the civilians; and how what happened in Baga was so different from odi that it should get the huge outcry from the APC whose leaders are on record to have not even regretted the massacre in odi talkless of calling for an investigation or rebuilding. It goes to show that there are two classes of nigerians as far as the APC core leaders are concerned.
They may make as much noise as they like. 2015 is just around the corner.
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  #22063 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightofdelta View Post
Apparent needless loss of lives. Noted.

1. Tactically dodged, as expected. Noted.

2. I guess you meant 2009. Your description of what happened in Baga does not matter in the larger scheme of things; what matters is maintaining the sovereignty of the entity called Nigeria.

I was on a mission for something and my suspicions were confirmed. I am done.

#CaseClosed.
Your question lacked context. It won't be answered even if asked ad infinitum. With context, you might get a response.

Odi happened in 1999. In any case, your hypocrisy is laid bare. Odi and Baga represent the same excesses of the JTF. For some reason, only Odi is bad.

#Hypocrisy
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  #22064 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

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Originally Posted by waaan5 View Post
Oga Pico, pls let this one pass. Nobody is rejoicing that the international fight against international terrorism affected civilians in Baga. What I want to hear is how could the international force have distinguished btw BH and the civilians; and how what happened in Baga was so different from odi that it should get the huge outcry from the APC whose leaders are on record to have not even regretted the massacre in odi talkless of calling for an investigation or rebuilding. It goes to show that there are two classes of nigerians as far as the APC core leaders are concerned.
Hmmm...............Oga Waaan5 (aka Dollars)

I do not know what to say anymore as I have so much respect for u

I am not out to politiczed what has happened in Baga, and I do remember I think getting KOD angry when he posted about odi back then with saharareporters link

It is sad when any Nigerians loose their lives, where ever they live or come from...I have always said - One Nigeria for All Nigerians....
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  #22065 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

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Originally Posted by knightofdelta View Post
They may make as much noise as they like. 2015 is just around the corner.
oga KOD

This is not about noise making or coming elections..............it is about the women and children now dead who had no links or association with BH
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  #22066 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Picolena66 View Post
oga KOD

This is not about noise making or coming elections..............it is about the women and children now dead who had no links or association with BH
Everything they see they see through the prism of elections.

#Desperate
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  #22067 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by waaan5 View Post
Oga Pico, pls let this one pass. Nobody is rejoicing that the international fight against international terrorism affected civilians in Baga. What I want to hear is how could the international force have distinguished btw BH and the civilians; and how what happened in Baga was so different from odi that it should get the huge outcry from the APC whose leaders are on record to have not even regretted the massacre in odi talkless of calling for an investigation or rebuilding. It goes to show that there are two classes of nigerians as far as the APC core leaders are concerned.
So because some cultist in a university killed some civilians or uniformed men then the security forces should invade the university to kill students and burn hostels in order to flush out cultist without proper intelligence to determine who is a cultist and who is not? Just like Cultist is not written on student faces, Terrorist is not also written on people faces but with intelligence gathering, you can determine who is who. The military intelligence personnel and SSS should have infiltrated the town to gather proper intelligence before the operation to reduce civilian casualties. There are rules of engagement. What happened in Baga is as condemnable as what happened in Odi.

Last edited by chudinho; 29th April 2013 at 10:03 PM.
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  #22068 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by waaan5 View Post
Oga Pico, pls let this one pass. Nobody is rejoicing that the international fight against international terrorism affected civilians in Baga. What I want to hear is how could the international force have distinguished btw BH and the civilians; and how what happened in Baga was so different from odi that it should get the huge outcry from the APC whose leaders are on record to have not even regretted the massacre in odi talkless of calling for an investigation or rebuilding. It goes to show that there are two classes of nigerians as far as the APC core leaders are concerned.
This is now about APC.. Did APC send the soldiers, the innocent citizens or the terrorists? Please remind us.

This govt is really preparing APC for Govt. Everyone keeps looking up to them for solutions!
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  #22069 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Picolena66 View Post
Hmmm...............Oga Waaan5 (aka Dollars)

I do not know what to say anymore as I have so much respect for u

I am not out to politiczed what has happened in Baga, and I do remember I think getting KOD angry when he posted about odi back then with saharareporters link

It is sad when any Nigerians loose their lives, where ever they live or come from...I have always said - One Nigeria for All Nigerians....
Oga mi, how i wish for many more nigerians with love for country like yours.
But truth is that everything is being politicized now by those who want central power by all means.
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  #22070 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by chudinho View Post
So because some cultist in a university killed some civilians or uniformed men then the security forces should invade the university to kill students and burn hostels in order to flush out cultist without proper intelligence to determine who is a cultist and who is not? Just like Cultist is not written on student faces, Terrorist is not also written on people faces but with intelligence gathering, you can determine who is who. The military intelligence personnel and SSS should have infiltrated the town to gather proper intelligence before the operation to reduce civilian casualties. There are rules of engagement. What happened in Baga is as condemnable as what happened in Odi.
Apparently, terrorist is tattooed on beards or babariga but not on fedora hats.
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  #22071 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by eniyanman View Post
This is now about APC.. Did APC send the soldiers, the innocent citizens or the terrorists? Please remind us.

This govt is really preparing APC for Govt. Everyone keeps looking up to them for solutions!
It is about trying to score cheap political points at the detriment of national security and the patriotic armed forces :
Jonathan insensitive to Baga killings – El-Rufai — The Punch - Nigeria's Most Widely Read Newspaper
Baga killings: I saw over 4,000 houses burnt, counted 228 graves —Senator Lawan - Nigeria News - Breaking, Nigeria, World, Business, Sport, Nollywood and Video News
ACF Condemns Baga Killings, Urges Ahmad Datti, Shehu Sani, To Return To Amnesty Committee | Sahara Reporters
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  #22072 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by eniyanman View Post
Thanks sir!

The people of Odi were forewarned. Baga weren't. Both killings totally unjustified, yet a few condemn Odi but not Baga (after-all they get relief for the needless suffering). Pitiful!
"Lets go back in time. When President Olusegun Obasanjo, in his imperial days, sent soldiers to destroy Odi in 1999, I did not hear protests from Northern leaders. In fact, the Odi invasion had a Hausa code-name, Hakuri II. Also, when JTF was bombarding the Niger Delta and killing innocent persons and destroying villages accused of harbouring militants, I did not hear any Northern leader raise a voice against it. Today, anytime the Northern leaders issue statements condemning the indiscriminate killings perpetrated by the JTF especially in Borno and Kano States, I tell myself: I wish these leaders had also spoken out when these same atrocities were being perpetrated in Odi and Gbaramatu." - Simon Kilawole

Militancy and the Politics of Hypocrisy, Articles | THISDAY LIVE
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  #22073 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Picolena66 View Post
Hmmm.............Officailly she is not chopping as per say

The applicant was the Deputy-Governor of Lagos State between January 1992 and November 1993 before she was forcibly removed from office as a result of a coup led by General Sani Abacha, now deceased......she did serve her state so she does deserve her pension abi???
Of course she deserves her pension; however the pension is way too rich...
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  #22074 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by chudinho View Post
So because some cultist in a university killed some civilians or uniformed men then the security forces should invade the university to kill students and burn hostels in order to flush out cultist without proper intelligence to determine who is a cultist and who is not? Just like Cultist is not written on student faces, Terrorist is not also written on people faces but with intelligence gathering, you can determine who is who. The military intelligence personnel and SSS should have infiltrated the town to gather proper intelligence before the operation to reduce civilian casualties. There are rules of engagement. What happened in Baga is as condemnable as what happened in Odi.
Chudi, until an independent assessment is done, we can not say for sure the casualty rate in Baga. We are yet to see mass graves to tally with some high numbers being banded about by permanent govt critics. Believe me, every careless loss of a life is one too much.

Where should we start from with this sudden sensitivity and respect for human lives? I am waiting for the day GOWON, and his top military echelon (OBJ, Danjuma, etc.) will be charged to the ICC for the millions of innocent children they staved to death and senseless massacres of millions of defenseless easterners in the period 1966 - 1970.
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  #22075 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by egoigwe View Post
"Lets go back in time. When President Olusegun Obasanjo, in his imperial days, sent soldiers to destroy Odi in 1999, I did not hear protests from Northern leaders. In fact, the Odi invasion had a Hausa code-name, Hakuri II. Also, when JTF was bombarding the Niger Delta and killing innocent persons and destroying villages accused of harbouring militants, I did not hear any Northern leader raise a voice against it. Today, anytime the Northern leaders issue statements condemning the indiscriminate killings perpetrated by the JTF especially in Borno and Kano States, I tell myself: I wish these leaders had also spoken out when these same atrocities were being perpetrated in Odi and Gbaramatu." - Simon Kilawole

Militancy and the Politics of Hypocrisy, Articles | THISDAY LIVE
I wish everyone will speak out because injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. But to defend Baga and condemn Odi is worse than silence.
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  #22076 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 11:04 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

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Originally Posted by eniyanman View Post
I wish everyone will speak out because injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. But to defend Baga and condemn Odi is worse than silence.
I do not think anyone can justify the killing of innocent civilians. However, what is sickening to me is the figure being bandied about by people. How could 4000 houses have been torched in Baga? Where did Baga get 4000 houses from? Is it the Baga that I knew as a corper or there is another Baga? That same Baga that we went to buy dry fish as corpers after POP?
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  #22077 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

Quote:
Originally Posted by waaan5 View Post
Chudi, until an independent assessment is done, we can not say for sure the casualty rate in Baga. We are yet to see mass graves to tally with some high numbers being banded about by permanent govt critics. Believe me, every careless loss of a life is one too much.

Where should we start from with this sudden sensitivity and respect for human lives? I am waiting for the day GOWON, and his top military echelon (OBJ, Danjuma, etc.) will be charged to the ICC for the millions of innocent children they staved to death and senseless massacres of millions of defenseless easterners in the period 1966 - 1970.
Our posts are based on assumption that the sides we are speaking for or against is telling the truth. If any side could prove their side of the story with empiricism, the argument will tilt.
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  #22078 (permalink)  
Old 29th April 2013, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

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Originally Posted by egoigwe View Post
I do not think anyone can justify the killing of innocent civilians. However, what is sickening to me is the figure being bandied about by people. How could 4000 houses have been torched in Baga? Where did Baga get 4000 houses from? Is it the Baga that I knew as a corper or there is another Baga? That same Baga that we went to buy dry fish as corpers after POP?
Bro leave matter oh! I have not been to bornu before, but i have gone all the way to yola by car during nysc and i know what a typical rural settlement in the northeast look like in terms of habitat and population.
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Old 29th April 2013, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

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Originally Posted by egoigwe View Post
"Lets go back in time. When President Olusegun Obasanjo, in his imperial days, sent soldiers to destroy Odi in 1999, I did not hear protests from Northern leaders. In fact, the Odi invasion had a Hausa code-name, Hakuri II. Also, when JTF was bombarding the Niger Delta and killing innocent persons and destroying villages accused of harbouring militants, I did not hear any Northern leader raise a voice against it. Today, anytime the Northern leaders issue statements condemning the indiscriminate killings perpetrated by the JTF especially in Borno and Kano States, I tell myself: I wish these leaders had also spoken out when these same atrocities were being perpetrated in Odi and Gbaramatu." - Simon Kilawole

Militancy and the Politics of Hypocrisy, Articles | THISDAY LIVE
Egoigwe (Metal Currency) The President for some reason I will allude to second term bid is not doing what is necessary to end Boko Haram menace. He is playing politics with peoples life and we choose to keep a blind eye to it. If he has balls he should do what is necessary. Declare STATE OF EMERGENCY in Bornu, Yobe, Jigawa and Kano and let me see if the insurgency will not die down in six months. Amnesty is not and can never be the way out. They should stop this politics of hypocrisy and bigotry and do what is needed to save peoples life. OBJ did in Plateau an Ekiti. GEJ first term isnt worth anybodys blood but his second term is heading to worth everybodys head.
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Old 29th April 2013, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: State of the Nation

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Our posts are based on assumption that the sides we are speaking for or against is telling the truth. If any side could prove their side of the story with empiricism, the argument will tilt.
True. And this is why i want an open mind until an independent assessment instead of the rush to condemn and denounce. I reiterate that every loss of innocent lives is regretted.
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