State of the Nation

[babe!]

Originally Posted by baotoghile

Goodmorning to you all.

My contribution to the above issues raised may be summarised as follow:

When men were united in a common course to build the tower of babel, they were unstoppable. But God used a simple tool to cause disunity among them, to stop them from achieving that purpose, according to the Bible. What was that tool? Is it proper for us now to say that such simple tool is not the primary cause of the Nigeria problem when we take a look at our history? Abeg to know from the house. Thank you all.

ok, so we should all start speaking the same language? out of curiosity which one do u pick? ibo, hausa, or pidgin?

"something you can't do anything about is not a problem. it is called a FACT(cant remember who said this)".

[babe!]

Originally Posted by Oracle

The same way there is no tribalism and religion when me, you and every nigerian watch Nigeria play in a world cup footbal match. We laugh, vex,hail and shout together while watching the match.

Originally Posted by Oracle

Yes, it really needs to be revamped!!!! Cos science teachers(in secondary school) still teach,''an atom is the smallest indivisible particle of an element''.

oga oracle, you are a true ibo man. you know how to make serious point in a jestful way.

[bamidele97]

Originally Posted by babe!

ok, so we should all start speaking the same language? out of curiosity which one do u pick? ibo, hausa, or pidgin?

"something you can't do anything about is not a problem. it is called a FACT(cant remember who said this)".

"something you can't do anything about is not a problem. it is called a FACT.

We have a Problem that we can't do anything about.

Therefore our Problem is not a PROBLEM.

Our Problem is a FACT.
FACT is our Problem.
Oga Babe, the Problem is still there o.

[nosa2]

Originally Posted by migiets

Hmmmmmmm. That means that those that cannot afford it should look for ways to afford it and we say we want to wipe out corruption. It is such mentality that those who schooled abroad are superior to those who did not school abroad that is making many people to steal the common wealth, then use it to send their kids abroad and make such children feel that they are superior to others.

Let me assume that my use of the word 'given' was a mistake, so what have those that have gotten their constitutionally little FAAC allocation done with it?. I believe they should focus on what they can do with the little they have than looking at the large sum of others. There was a report of recent that out of 18,000 people that took an SSCE exam in Gombe state, only 17 people passed. Is this due to little FAAC allocation ocassioned by the 13% derivation paid to a few states?. I can bet that the kids of the Executive members are all in foreign schools and they are already feeling superior to those in the state that study under trees.

I repeat, if you cannot manage the little you have, you will not be ale to manage something big.

Rochas Okorocha just declared free education from primary school to university level for all Imo state indigenes and yet Imo state is not the state that collects the highest revenue from FAAC.

The level of societal development is a testimony as to the quality of education. How many Nigerian graduates in the last decade have created world class companies compare that to their foreign colleagues. What field of research has any Nigerian university championed in the last decade? Can a Nigerian university provide a home grown economic policy? Superiority is not in question, it's a fact. Nigerian graduates are made to cram handouts their foreign counterparts write. This doesn't mean that there aren't stupid foreign graduates just like there are Nigerian graduates who are geniuses but the averages are not even on the same planet and would explain why while your Nigerian genius would celebrate a job in shell his American counterpart would change the world.

I've not said deregulation is wrong but rather unnecessary and unfair given our history. And I have no doubt that given mire funding Gombe state students would perform better

As for the IMO states governors actions, well let's just say I'd rather have one MIT than one hundred UNILAG's.

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by babe!

oga oracle, maybe you should look at this..
Tribalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. much of what you describe sounds like stigmatization.

stigmatization exist on a spectrum, from stereotypes, to prejudice and finally to the most damaging dis empowerment. A lot can be done about stigmatization, tribalism however is begining to hav negative connotations.

tell me how do u cure someone of tribalism? is it even a crime anywhere? Abuse of office is a crime. Nepotism is wrong. Tribalism?? i don't know so much.
but if someone is wicked, abuse his office or kills another etc lets call it what it is.

i know a ibo man is different from a ibibio man. that is not tribalism. it is a fact of life.

it is having prejudicial views and sysematically dis-empowering either of them that is wrong.

Bros/madam,let's start by explaining things here.

Tribalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Social stigma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Excerpt from the social stigma link:

Stigma comes in three forms:

(1)Overt or external deformations, such as scars, physical manifestations of anorexia nervosa, leprosy (leprosy stigma), or of a physical disability or social disability, such as obesity.

(2)Deviations in personal traits, including mental illness, drug addiction, alcoholism, and criminal background are stigmatized in this way.

(3)"Tribal stigmas" are traits, imagined or real, of ethnic group, nationality, or of religion that is deemed to be a deviation from the prevailing normative ethnicity, nationality or religion.

Now you are pointing to definition 3 as quoted above.....Yes or no?

If it is this, then let's explain.

(3)"Tribal stigmas" are traits, imagined or real, of ethnic group, nationality, or of religion that is deemed to be a deviation from the prevailing normative ethnicity, nationality or religion.

From this defintion, there are keywords there,namely:

Deviation,prevailing and normative.

Deviation means how far away from the normal.
Prevailing means current,dominant.
Normative means realting to ideal or standard model(from wikipedia)

So defintion number 3 for stigma can be rephrased as(putting the meaning of these keywords into the statement for tribal stigma) :

(the boldened part is the part rephrased)

(3)"Tribal stigmas" are traits, imagined or real, of ethnic group, nationality, or of religion that is deemed to be far away from the current/dominant standard model/ideal [a deviation from the prevailing normative] ethnicity, nationality or religion.

So what I described in response to KOD's arguement does it mean this rephrased statement for tribal stigma?

Let me help you here. In ibo land, there is a way people from Anambra or Imo looks at those from Abakaliki(in Ebonyi State). they look at them as backward people who are not really showing the ideal Ibo man. This is tribal stigmatization.

If yoruba man sees a yourba race as well read(that go to school) and later sees a non-criminal,non-diseased,non-alcoholic and very fit yoruba man engaging in menial jobs, there is a way they will treat the person. That is tribal stigmatization.

Then what happens when this Abakaliki man who decides to do something positive in his life writes an application(with other applicants from different tribes) to be a security man(for an Ibo man) and he is given a job without any screening or whatsoever for other people of different tribes, waht would you call this? stigmatization???? Or will you call it nepotism??? Both are wrong!!!!


Answer is Tribalism!

[waaan5]

Originally Posted by knightofdelta

I agreed with you all the way until the last sentence. That one is pure fallacy. Schooling abroad does not change anything. We are all entitled to our opinion though but there is no empirical evidence to show that schooling abroad makes people better than those trained in Nigeria. When I was in med school in Ife during the Modakeke-Ife crises, there was a senior colleague of mine who happened to be an indigene of Ife who was engaged to a Modakeke girl schooling in the US. The girl broke up with him during the crises saying that she cannot marry an Ife guy.

Thanks sir. I have been reading (and getting amused) by many opinions here wihout sharing my own. I agree.

My opinion is that people should endeavor to give their children the best education they can readily afford. Not necessarily sending them abroad and thinking that solves anything of itself.

There are schools here in Nigeria (primary, secondary, tertiary) that are better than many schools overseas (both in academics and in overall standards). And I should know. I had the opportunity to do both.

For example, majority of the foreign schools advertising for Nigerian students in Nigerian Media, are a joke in their home countries. They are just rushing to take advantage of our ignorance/low esteem to fund themselves. I have friends who keep on struggling just so they can send and mantain their wards aboard in some of these schools. All I feel for them is pity but I can not say it to them for fear of being misunderstood and labelled.

[Felz]

Originally Posted by knightofdelta

I agreed with you all the way until the last sentence. That one is pure fallacy. Schooling abroad does not change anything. We are all entitled to our opinion though but there is no empirical evidence to show that schooling abroad makes people better than those trained in Nigeria. When I was in med school in Ife during the Modakeke-Ife crises, there was a senior colleague of mine who happened to be an indigene of Ife who was engaged to a Modakeke girl schooling in the US. The girl broke up with him during the crises saying that she cannot marry an Ife guy.

me sef na Ife graduate. But the whole tribal thing had died down by the time I finished 2 years ago

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by nosa2

The level of societal development is a testimony as to the quality of education. How many Nigerian graduates in the last decade have created world class companies compare that to their foreign colleagues. What field of research has any Nigerian university championed in the last decade? Can a Nigerian university provide a home grown economic policy? Superiority is not in question, it's a fact. Nigerian graduates are made to cram handouts their foreign counterparts write. This doesn't mean that there aren't stupid foreign graduates just like there are Nigerian graduates who are geniuses but the averages are not even on the same planet and would explain why while your Nigerian genius would celebrate a job in shell his American counterpart would change the world.

I've not said deregulation is wrong but rather unnecessary and unfair given our history. And I have no doubt that given mire funding Gombe state students would perform better

As for the IMO states governors actions, well let's just say I'd rather have one MIT than one hundred UNILAG's.

(to the part in bold) My brother, no dey talk like this. How a nigerian genius go dey study dey drink garri and groundnut with omi tutu(cold water in yoruba). He will not think well. And that is why he needs that Shell job so that he will think well.

And guess what, there are many patented researches done by these geniuses while working in these firms in Nigeria. You can only know if you are in similar field.

People no dey talk of MIT again nauw! Them don fall from ranking!

[waaan5]

Originally Posted by knightofdelta

That thing called Federal character is killing us. I wish Nosa2 can just calm down and see Sanusi for who he really is. This is not about hearsays but facts. AMCON is under fire for hiring "too many people from the South West". There are some things also going on in CBN that I am not in a position to reveal. Sanusi knows the right thing to do. He knows that a devaluation of the Naira would have done a lot of good but he bowed to political pressure and instead raised interest rates. I cannot say much, seriously. I just know that by 2014, we will be rid of Sanusi for good.

Let's all hope and pray for Nigeria. And pls do take care in Abuja.

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by waaan5

Thanks sir. I have been reading (and getting amused) by many opinions here wihout sharing my own. I agree.

My opinion is that people should endeavor to give their children the best education they can readily afford. Not necessarily sending them abroad and thinking that solves anything of itself.

There are schools here in Nigeria (primary, secondary, tertiary) that are better than many schools overseas (both in academics and in overall standards). And I should know. I had the opportunity to do both.

For example, majority of the foreign schools advertising for Nigerian students in Nigerian Media, are a joke in their home countries. They are just rushing to take advantage of our ignorance/low esteem to fund themselves. I have friends who keep on struggling just so they can send and mantain their wards aboard in some of these schools. All I feel for them is pity but I can not say it to them for fear of being misunderstood and labelled.

My Oga, And you say this person is your friend? Na wah ooo!

why don't you tell him so that he will be aware?

[migiets]

Originally Posted by nosa2

The level of societal development is a testimony as to the quality of education. How many Nigerian graduates in the last decade have created world class companies compare that to their foreign colleagues. What field of research has any Nigerian university championed in the last decade? Can a Nigerian university provide a home grown economic policy? Superiority is not in question, it's a fact. Nigerian graduates are made to cram handouts their foreign counterparts write. This doesn't mean that there aren't stupid foreign graduates just like there are Nigerian graduates who are geniuses but the averages are not even on the same planet and would explain why while your Nigerian genius would celebrate a job in shell his American counterpart would change the world.

I've not said deregulation is wrong but rather unnecessary and unfair given our history. And I have no doubt that given mire funding Gombe state students would perform better

As for the IMO states governors actions, well let's just say I'd rather have one MIT than one hundred UNILAG's.

The point of discussion is not about Nigerian graduates and their foreign counterparts but about nigerias that schooled in nigeria and nigerians that schooled abroad. Now tell me how many Nigerians that schooled abroad (primary to univeristy) that have created world class companies.

It is good if you have one MIT than one hundred UNILAG. The problem that will create is that the one MIT will not contain the blightest in Nigeria because the issue of Federal character and educationally disadvantageous state will come into play. You will be surprised that somebody from Gombe state that got 200 in JAMB will be admitted into that one MIT while somebody from Edo state that scored 280 will be denied. If we have to remove 13% derivation, then let us also remove federal character and educationally disadvantaged states. That way, we have a level playing field.

[omsby]

Originally Posted by Oracle

The same way there is no tribalism and religion when me, you and every nigerian watch Nigeria play in a world cup footbal match. We laugh, vex,hail and shout together while watching the match.

... these events boost and intensify the national identity. The more of such
experiences the more nigerians will developing a feeling of togetherness on the basis of been nigerians and not because along the tribal lines.

@KOD: Great Ife!!! Were u Awoite or Fajuyite?

[migiets]

Originally Posted by waaan5

Thanks sir. I have been reading (and getting amused) by many opinions here wihout sharing my own. I agree.

My opinion is that people should endeavor to give their children the best education they can readily afford. Not necessarily sending them abroad and thinking that solves anything of itself.

There are schools here in Nigeria (primary, secondary, tertiary) that are better than many schools overseas (both in academics and in overall standards). And I should know. I had the opportunity to do both.

For example, majority of the foreign schools advertising for Nigerian students in Nigerian Media, are a joke in their home countries. They are just rushing to take advantage of our ignorance/low esteem to fund themselves. I have friends who keep on struggling just so they can send and mantain their wards aboard in some of these schools. All I feel for them is pity but I can not say it to them for fear of being misunderstood and labelled.

You have hit the nail on the head. I always laugh when i hear on media that a particular university is in nigeria to hold an education fair or on a students recuitment drive. Which serious university that is worth her name will go about advertising for students. I do not really blame these universities that are advertising because already several Nigerians have equated somebody that schooled abroad as being superior to somebody that schooled in Nigeria just as football coaches have equated players playing football abroad (even if na Nepal or India League) to be superior to those playing in the Nigerian league. Foreign player, local player or foreign graduate, local graduate mentality.

[nosa2]

Originally Posted by migiets

The point of discussion is not about Nigerian graduates and their foreign counterparts but about nigerias that schooled in nigeria and nigerians that schooled abroad. Now tell me how many Nigerians that schooled abroad (primary to univeristy) that have created world class companies.

It is good if you have one MIT than one hundred UNILAG. The problem that will create is that the one MIT will not contain the blightest in Nigeria because the issue of Federal character and educationally disadvantageous state will come into play. You will be surprised that somebody from Gombe state that got 200 in JAMB will be admitted into that one MIT while somebody from Edo state that scored 280 will be denied. If we have to remove 13% derivation, then let us also remove federal character and educationally disadvantaged states. That way, we have a level playing field.

You just moved this discussion forward and I agree entirely and conversely if we keep derivation then we forfeit our right to complain about federal character.

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by migiets

The point of discussion is not about Nigerian graduates and their foreign counterparts but about nigerias that schooled in nigeria and nigerians that schooled abroad. Now tell me how many Nigerians that schooled abroad (primary to univeristy) that have created world class companies.

It is good if you have one MIT than one hundred UNILAG. The problem that will create is that the one MIT will not contain the blightest in Nigeria because the issue of Federal character and educationally disadvantageous state will come into play. You will be surprised that somebody from Gombe state that got 200 in JAMB will be admitted into that one MIT while somebody from Edo state that scored 280 will be denied. If we have to remove 13% derivation, then let us also remove federal character and educationally disadvantaged states. That way, we have a level playing field.

(literal translation) Sorry do they use JAMB score to enter into MIT?

[waaan5]

Originally Posted by babe!

True. i once saw a patient, he presented for treatment for being homosexual. however he was several years late. The field of psychiatry has long removed/abolish homosexuality as a disease. he is a Nigerian and i wonder what will become of him in the light of those laws.

That was not without cause. I refuse to digress.

[nosa2]

Originally Posted by waaan5

That was not without cause. I refuse to digress.

Abeg explain o!

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by migiets

You have hit the nail on the head. I always laugh when i hear on media that a particular university is in nigeria to hold an education fair or on a students recuitment drive. Which serious university that is worth her name will go about advertising for students. I do not really blame these universities that are advertising because already several Nigerians have equated somebody that schooled abroad as being superior to somebody that schooled in Nigeria just as football coaches have equated players playing football abroad (even if na Nepal or India League) to be superior to those playing in the Nigerian league. Foreign player, local player or foreign graduate, local graduate mentality.

You don't need to bother yourself. Leave them,let them go and return. They will face the home-grown applicants at the test centre writing SHL tests.

Funny enough, years of experience at work matters more than paper certificates. Someone with a higher years of provable experience is started on a high ladder than one with a Masters degree holder from Imperial. You get certificate but you get experience????!!!! These are 2 different things!

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by waaan5
That was not without cause. I refuse to digress.

Originally Posted by nosa2

Abeg explain o!

Cos many school of thought see it as a variation of sexual function and a way of life rather than a pathological condition.

[bamidele97]

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